If you've
been following this ranty blog for any amount of time, you’ve probably heard me
mention Shane Black once or thrice. For those who came in late, he's one
of the men behind the million-dollar spec-script boom 20 years ago. You might know him as the writer of films
like The Monster Squad, Lethal Weapon, The Last Boy Scout, and The Long Kiss Goodnight.
(Supposedly, an unwritten part of his deal for Lethal Weapon was getting to
be in an action film, so the studio stuck him in some stupid alien-fighting-bodybuilders-in-the-jungle
movie that no one was going to see--never expecting that Black would rewrite
all his dialogue to become one of the most memorable characters in the
film...)
He took some time off from Hollywood and then returned a few years back as the writer-director of the
award-winning Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang, which propelled Robert Downey
Jr. back into the public eye. Then the two of them got together again for
this summer’s Iron Man 3, which Black directed and co-wrote.
Anyway, back when
I used to write for Creative Screenwriting, Black was kind of a Hollywood legend
as a person and as a writer. So when the
editor of CS Weekly asked us for December article ideas, I tossed out doing a
general interview with Black. After all,
the man’s set almost every movie he’s written at Christmastime—he had to have
something to say about it. My editor
agreed it would be a neat thing and put out some feelers, and we both kind of
forgot about it. We were a very small,
niche film magazine, and he was... well, he was Shane Black.
So when
Black wrote back in less than a week and said “Sure, let’s grab a coffee or
something,” you can imagine the girlish squeals of glee.
Alas,
reality hit just as quick.
At this point the magazine was starting to struggle financially and my first
novel,
Ex-Heroes, wasn’t going to see print for another three months. The squeals of glee faded and I suddenly
realized I couldn’t afford to grab a coffee.
Hell, I wasn’t sure I could afford gas to drive to a Starbucks to meet
him. After the shame faded, I wrote back
with some lame excuses about sound quality and not wanting to waste his
time. We set up a phone interview and I
missed my big chance to hang out with Shane Black for an hour.
Fortunately,
he was very pleasant and gracious on the phone, and it was one of those
conversations where I felt like I learned more about storytelling in forty-odd
minutes than I had in some college classes.
A few of
the usual points... I’m in bold, asking
the questions. Keep in mind a lot of
these aren’t the exact, word-for-word questions I asked (which tended to be a
bit more organic and conversational), so if the answer seems a bit off, don’t
stress out over it. Any links are entirely mine and aren’t meant
to imply Mr. Black was specifically endorsing any of the ideas I’ve brought up
here on the ranty blog—it’s just me linking from something he's said to
something similar that I’ve said (some of it inspired by this conversation).
By the very
nature of this discussion, there will probably be a few small spoilers
in here, though not many. Check out some
of his movies if you haven’t already seen them.
They’re damned fun and filled with fantastic characters.
Material
from this interview was originally used for a “From The Trenches” article that
appeared in the December 18th, 2009 issue of CS Weekly.
So, anyway,
here’s me talking with Shane Black about
Santa, Christmas, storytelling, and Frankenstein in the Wild West.
Happy Holidays.
Were you a big fan of
Christmas specials and movies growing up?
What are some of your favorites?
Well, it's
interesting. I watch all the old
Christmas movies and I like them for odd reasons. Like It's
A Wonderful Life. It's a Christmas
movie, but within it they have a lot of bizarre, Capra-esque touches that are
more indicative of just life. The scene
where the gym starts to open--the floor starts to pull back and there's a
swimming pool underneath. Someone falls
in and then everyone just jumps in the pool.
That moment is as fresh today as it was back then. That kind of crazy improv moment where
everyone starts laughing and jumping in. Even as a kid I was struck by
that. "Wow, that's a different kind
of moment than most movies. That feels
like it just happened almost by accident."
My favorite
Christmas film is probably this Spanish Santa Claus movie.. It's called Santa Claus and I even used a bit of it in
Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang. Basically, Santa Claus fights the Devil. The Devil tries to stop Christmas. There's this one scene where he just runs
around the room doing gymnastics. You've
got to see it. You've got to pick it up
and look at it--- The Devil's this really athletic, slightly gay-looking guy
who can blow flames through a phone line.
If he calls you on the phone, flames come out the receiver and they
singe your ear. That's probably my
favorite. Santa's really lame and the
effects are terrible.
My other
favorite was called Santa Claus and the
Ice Cream Bunny. There's no
snow. It was filmed in Florida in broad
daylight. Santa's sled is stuck because
there's no snow, and they're all waiting for the Ice Cream Bunny. While they're waiting Santa tells all the
kids the story of Jack and the Beanstalk, which takes roughly 50 -75
minutes. At the end of which the Ice
Cream Bunny shows up and everyone says "now we're safe." I can't believe some of the frauds--even as a
child--that were perpetrated on me (chuckles). It's pretty amazing.
About half your films have been set at Christmas. I
know your first script, Shadow Company, was originally set at
Halloween, and then you rewrote it as Christmas in a later draft. Why?
Yeah. Christmas for some reason... Even though it's a worldwide phenomenon I
always associate it with a certain kind of American way of life. It's also sort of a hushed period, during
which, for a period of time, we agree to suspend hostility. I'm always fascinated by the almost palpable
sense in the air that something's different at Christmas.
If you look
at a tipping point scenario-- how many people does it take to start a standing
ovation? Just one. And then in five seconds two other people,
then three, then four, then 75,000 are clapping. Because the tipping point is as simple as one
person pushing in that direction. And it
can go ugly just as easily. It can go
the other direction. One person starts
to get out of hand and then everyone's out of hand.
So
Christmas to me represented the best we have in terms of keeping things on that
side of the dial. A period in which, for
whatever reason, the tipping point was more likely to bump into someone on the
street and have them say "Oh, hey man, my bad," then to have him say
"Fuck you, buddy! Watch where
you're going!" That was remarkable
to me.
Also in
California, Christmas, if you look at it as a substance almost, as a thing more
than an idea, Christmas exists out here in California but in these
indescribably beautiful ways to me. You
have to dig for it. It's not a 40 foot
Christmas tree on the White House lawn, it's a little broken, plastic Madonna
with a flash bulb inside hanging off a Mexican lunch wagon. It's a little strand of colored light in some
cheap trailer in the blinding sunlight, but it's still protesting its
Christmas-ness. I adore little touches
of Christmas that indicate subtly...
It's like talismans. You walk
around and these are the magic. These
are your touchstones. Little bits of Christmas that remind us that this doesn't
have to be a blinded, blighted, sun-washed, hostile place to live. Christmas has always had that magic ability
to me, to exist almost like a magic substance that you find little bit of if you
dig carefully enough for it. I know that
sounds kind of crazy.
No, I'm actually
intrigued. When did you develop this view? Was Lethal
Weapon set at Christmas because of this or did the... the philosophy of
Christmas develop along the way?
Along the way. Well,
Lethal Weapon is a
Frankenstein story to me. It's a guy
who's a monster of sorts, who sits in his trailer and watches TV. People despise him, they revile him,
because... it's like a western. They
think the west is tame. They think
they're safe and secure in this sedentary little suburbia. This sort of lulling effect that whatever
violence and terror are in the world, we've managed to secure ourselves from
it. But he knows different. Frankenstein in his trailer, he's been with
violence, he's lived violence. He knows
that its still there. The west is not
tame, it is not gentrified. When
violence, in
Lethal Weapon, comes to
the suburbs and takes this guy's daughter and kills cops, they go to
Frankenstein and say "Look, we hate you for what we do. We think you're an anomaly at best and a
monster at worst, but now we need you because you're the only one who
understands this. We've gotten
hypnotized by tranquility. We forgot
that violence is still there, and you're the one who can deal with that, so now
we need to let you out of your cage."
That was the idea. Christmas, it
seemed to me, was
the most pleasant, lulling, hypnotizing atmosphere in which
to forget that violence can be so sudden and swift and just invade our private
lives.
Did you actually study screenwriting?
Nah. I took theater classes at UCLA. I was studying stagecraft and acting. It was a Mickey Mouse major. My finals often were painting sets,
y'know? It was kind of a cakewalk though
college. I took all the requirements-- I
liked theater, I liked movies, but I'd never seen a screenplay and I thought
they were impossibly difficult. Coming
from back east I just assumed movies
were something that floated through the ether and appeared on your TV screen
and
some magician wrote them, but there was certainly no way I could. Then I read a script and it was so easy. I read another one and said "I can do
this. This is really rather simple." So I never took classes,
I just read scripts
I loved.
My style,
such as it is, that sometime people comment on, is really cribbed from two
sources. One is William Goldman, who has
a kind of chummy, folksy, storytelling style.
It's almost as though a guy in a bar is talking to you from his bar stool. And then Walter Hill, who is just completely
terse and sparing and has this real spartan prose that's just punchy and has
this wonderful effect of just gut-punching you.
I took those two and I slammed them together, and that's what I
use. People say it's interesting. Mostly it's a rip-off. It's Goldman meets
Walter Hill.
Did you always write
like this or are there some older Shane Black scripts that will never see the
light of day?
No, the
first scripts I wrote were scripts I wrote after I decided to go out and see
what they look like. So I picked up
William Goldman, I picked up Walter
Hill, and then I wrote Shadow Company,
which even on the page, the '84 version, looks exactly like a Goldman
script. Lethal Weapon, it's pretty much in the style of those two
writers. Material aside. Material is different, I'm talking solely
about the style on the page and learning the logistics of how to do it. Those two were my mentors. Later mentors were people like James L.
Brooks, who taught me an amazing amount, and Joel Silver, of all people,
qualifies as a mentor.
How do you generally write? Do you use outlines or
notecards or just start cranking it out from page one?
I don't
really use notecards. What I do is I try
to figure out what the piece is about and link that to the story arc or the
character arc. I always think there's two
things going on in any script--
there's the story and then there's the plot. The plot is the events. If it's a heist film, it's how they get in
and out. But the story is why we're
there, why we're watching the events.
It's what's going on with the characters. And theme above that. Once I get those things, once I know what the
theme is and what it's about, I can start trying on story beats and plot beats
to see if they feel like they're moving, but they have to relate to the overall
theme. If you look at
The Dark Knight, you'll find before
those guys wrote a word of script, they knew exactly what their movie was
about. All the themes were in
place. Sometimes they has to bend the
scenes in
The Dark Knight to fit the
theme they were trying to get across.
It's clear they didn't write the scenes and then look for what they were
about, they clearly knew where they were headed. So thematically I get a sense of what the
movie's gotta be, but I don't use notecards.
I can
juggle a lot in my head. I can't get
more than say, twenty pages, without planning ahead.
How long does it
normally take you to get a first draft of something?
I try to
keep by studio standards, which is three months. They give you three months from commencement
pay to final payment, and
I think that's enough time if you really work at it. We did a draft that I really loved,
and it did not make the screen, of
Last
Action Hero, my partner and I. We
did that in six weeks and I was very proud of that. From sitting down with this original
screenplay and completely rewriting and retooling it. We were good, we were
fast.
You mentioned your
partner. I know you worked with Fred
Dekker for a while--have you gone back to writing with a partner?
Lately just
to facilitate things. It takes me so
long to think of ideas and so long to convince myself to get to work, and
there's so much fear involved. Writing
to me is a process of just desperately trying, on a daily basis, to concentrate
until something becomes more interesting than my fear. Then you're sucked in and you start doing the
work, but up 'till then it's just horrifying to me. So if I can have help, if someone's in the
sinking boat with me, even if we're both going to drown, at least there's a
comfort to not being alone. I'll write
the next one solo.
Now, you took time
off, came back with a new script you shopped around, and nobody knew who you
were. That was Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang,
right?
It
was. Most people would have nothing to
do with it.
Did planning to
direct it change how you approached writing it?
No, I
thought about that. That was when I was
dealing with Jim Brooks. He basically
said "You don't need to worry because you direct on paper. You don't call shots, but you call mood and
you call progression and pace and emphasis and just about everything
else." So I may have even done a
little more of that on Kiss Kiss, Bang
Bang.
Now that you've sat
in the director's chair, has it changed how you approach a script?
No, except
I'm even more conscious of what will later be shoe leather. The greatest shoemakers in the world
supposedly can make a pair of shoes and leave no [extra] leather.
They didn't waste any. I'm very conscious now as a director. If you've got two scenes, like a newscaster
and a scene before that of a conversation, can't you have the conversation with
the newscaster in the background and do it in one? It's just shoe leather.
No shoe leather.
It's probably safe to
say a lot of people have offbeat movies they watch this time of year, and a
bunch of them are probably your movies.
Is there anything unusual you like to watch at the holidays?
Oddly enough, every year about this time, for no reason I
can fathom, I watch The Exorcist, my favorite movie [chuckles].
Every year I'm reminded of how it doesn't age, not one single day. It's as
riveting as it ever has been.